Who's boss? That's an interesting question. Are the members of the council of Elders considered dead? In the infobox Kazra'jin's name appears with a cross next to it, but in the table at the bottom of the page, he isn't listed as deseaced - what's up with that? --Amargaard (talk) 18:55, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Tribe or tribe?
Guys, please make up your mind about this thing. I've seen you edit back and forth many times now. Personally, I would say Tribe with a capital first letter, because it's used in the infobox as a header, and headers use capital first letters in standard english. --Amargaard (talk) 20:40, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
- Wiki policy has "tribe" and "clan" as lower case. Blizzard is inconsistent on the issue of where the proper noun ends, so we use them as they are usually written in running text.-- 00:36, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Affiliation with the Horde
So this is a question that's been bugging me for a while. Aren't the lesser tribes now affiliated with the Horde by proxy of the Zandalari? Unless they explicitly revolt against them, like half the Sandfury do, they're still in line / some of them are even talked to (See the Drakkari for example, they talk to the Horde player with little issue, as with the 'speakers'). They're sworn to the Zandalari as their leaders; meaning that where they go, the tribes follow. While the Amani are obviously not happy about it, they've not gone to the lengths the Sandfury have and retain their place as servants of Zandalar; to the point where there's world quests where you 'remind the amani' where their place is in the servitude to the Zandalari when you kill their disciple champions in Tal'aman.--Berenal (talk) 15:45, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'd call that a bit of a stretch. Especially since the Amani in Zuldazar are actively hostile. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 18:50, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- I've always considered the Zandalari as a neutral umbrella-organization that is not in charge of the different clans, but merely a place for them to meet. Sorta like the real world United Nations, although they have sometimes acted a bit more like NATO, there are clearly no clan or kingdom who is acting against their own interests. So I would say - good question - but no, I don't think so.--Amargaard (talk) 19:16, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- My concern with that is that we've fought 'hostile groups' before without them being implicitly at war with us. For example we've fought our own troops who are upset for one reason or another in a few quests. And Throne of Thunder makes it pretty implicit that the other tribes have basically pledged servitude to Zandalari leadership. Rastakhan reinforces this in his dialogue when he sends you to Tal'aman as well. Like I said in my OP, I can get the Amani are upset; they have every right to be, but as long as they've pledged to Zandalar, don't they follow their affiliations?--Berenal (talk) 22:21, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
- While I wouldn't be surprised, until that happens, is it alright if I mark horde on the page somewhere? It's accurate by technicality at the moment, and we've already seen that it's not like Blizzard forgot them considering there's quests still referencing their, albeit somewhat chafed, subservience that they are actively opposing; while still not in full rebellion. It's like what happened with the Dreadmaul ogres, if it ever gets expanded on later, it can be updated. --Berenal (talk) 23:21, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
- I wouldn't even call it "technically accurate." The Amani are technically allied with the Zandalari, and the Zandalari are allies of the Horde, but that doesn't make every troll tribe on Azeroth allied with the Horde. Alliances are not transitive. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 23:20, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
- The problem is it's not alliance, it's subservience. They're considered basically vassals of the Zandalari. While it's definitely a stretch for all the other tribes, who seem to be still following them around, we know for the big groups like the Amani and Gurubashi that they did sign on to the Zandalari wholesale. --Berenal (talk) 03:05, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
- No, but it does add affiliation by proxy. It's like when Suramar joined the Horde, every nightborne of that faction became affiliated with them, including their Nightfallen/Withered. As long as the Amani are vassals of the Zandalari Empire, they follow their affiliations as well. Like we need to keep in mind, these are not loose affiliations. The Sand Trolls were able to get one of their own on the Zanchuli Council, that's the ruling body of the Zandalari as a whole, not just the tribes. At the same time he was still Sandfury/Farraki. The Amani are on the same scale of affiliation as the Sandfury are. These are essentially merged factions with the tribes acting as sub-factions, rather than individual alliances like one could see with say Gilneas and Darnassus. --Berenal (talk) 02:37, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
- The other troll tribes are not vassals of the Zandalari, they're allies--and it's a much more loose alliance than you seem to think. Putting a sand troll on the Zanchuli Council is a big deal BECAUSE HE'S NOT A ZANDALARI. That speaks to Jakra'zet's ability that he was able to get that high. But the other tribes do not serve the Zandalari, and any allegiance they have to the Zandalari is to them alone and does not translate to the Zandalari's allies. When the Zandalari say "jump," the other troll tribes do not ask "how high?" The Zandalari Empire article even says "Though they had the respect and admiration of all other trolls, the Zandalari did not wield sovereignty over the other trolls, nor did they seek such authority."
- Your Nightborne example really isn't a good one, either, because the Nightborne were a single unified faction (at least after Elisande's defeat). The trolls of Azeroth, on the other hand, are several independent groups that may or may not even like each other, tied together only by their mutual respect for the Zandalari. -- DarkTZeratul (talk)
- Exactly what DTZ said. - MyMindWontQuiet 13:08, 28 December 2018 (UTC)