Talk: Fel

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Appearances

Added a small section about appearances, mostly observation, if someone knows where to cite the info be my guest. I don't happen to have many of the books with me. Rannulf 07:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Point of this is an article about Fel magic. Fel corruption should have its own article if it doesn't already. Not all users of fel magic necessarily mutate into demonic creatures.Baggins (talk) 07:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Didn't see that, sorry for the mix up. --Rannulf 16:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

As Death magic

Discussion moved to Talk:Fel/Analysis.

There is no way that this has anything to do with editing the article anymore, so I am going to have to end this. Feel free to continue this at Talk:Fel/Analysis.--SWM2448 05:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Shouldn't the whole debate be moved? That way, the talk page would be clean of non-related topics, and "Analysis" would serve a purpose. I can do that, if you want.File:APB Deathknight Unholy.png Cemotucu (talk contribs) 15:22, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it should. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 16:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

It's a human warlock

I've contacted Mr. Kerem Beyit on DeviantArt and he says it's an art piece depicting a human warlock. Do I need to prove it with a screenshot?--Adûnâi (talk) 22:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I've waited for a reply for 10 days (since February 18), and I don't know if I can take screenshots. There is literary nothing that supports the idea that creature is a blood elf.--Adûnâi (talk) 02:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Presumably, it's the green eyes and distinctly pointed ears. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 03:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

I figure the pointed ears are a resultfo the warlock mimicking Illidan's metamorphosis (like Kanrethad). But anyway... race is not relevant here, only that a mortal is turning into a demon.File:APB Deathknight Unholy.png Cemotucu (talk contribs) 17:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

If you really want, I'd say put a note on the picture's page where it's more relevant. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 17:59, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Fel Magic

I think that it would be wiser if the page was split between "fel" and "fel magic". Because the last revision has modified the content of certain Sean Copeland's tweets (he explicitly said fel was created from the sacrifice of something else) and I don't think we should do that.

Either that, or maybe we should use the first paragraph for the energy and another section of the article for the magical discipline per se.File:APB Deathknight Unholy.png Cemotucu (talk contribs) 14:53, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Since it's kinda been lost with all the revisions. Here's a copy of what Loreology tweeted:

"Are Demons the source of Fel magic?"
They contain fel magic, but they aren't "the" source. The nature of this magic is created from destroying something else. Think "Burn life to create" kind of thing.

--Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:38, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Not all demons contain felblood

Some demons, such as the skeletal Fel Wolves and Hakkar, don't contain felblood.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 03:11, 8 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

That's true. But it seems something that the reader should be able to understand from the text: that all the demons that have blood, carry felblood. Ergo, bloodless demons don't carry felblood. Though you can add a note to explain that.File:APB Deathknight Unholy.png Cemotucu (talk contribs) 03:25, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Word=]VisionOfPerfection (talk) 03:56, 8 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

The analogy

Converting life force to create Fel is the same as destroying life force to create Fel.

That analogy works more-so for Fel than it does for Arcane AND the change I made didn't contradict what Loreology stated.

Steam is what is created when water is heated and Fel is created by "burning life". Perhaps Fel isn't literally created by burning life force?

Is Mana ("Water") burned/heated to create Arcane ("Steam")? If not, why is that analogy used for Arcane and not Fel, and most importantly why are you reverting the change?

Perhaps Life force is a solid that is transformed/converted/destroyed into something viscous?VisionOfPerfection (talk) 16:59, 28 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Because when you heat water to create steam, the water isn't destroyed - it merely transitions from a liquid to a gas. Were you to cool down the steam, it would condense back into water. When a log is burning, however, it isn't undergoing a state transition to fire - it's being consumed and destroyed to keep the fire going. If you put out the fire, the log doesn't reconstitute itself. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 17:35, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

In addition to DarkTZeratul's comment (which was the main logic I followed to undid the edit),I wanted to point that Kosak's analogy said arcane was like "steam pressure", not that arcane was steam; the former is a physical force, the later is one of water's states of matter.File:APB Deathknight Unholy.png Cemotucu (talk contribs) 18:06, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

1) I know that steam isn't steam pressure, which is why I removed pressure from steam pressure.

2) Life force isn't wood and Fel energy isn't the fire that burns the wood, Fel energy is created by "burning""converting""transforming""destroying" life force (the wood). I know that fire burns wood to keep itself going and that Fel magic burns life energy to keep itself going but Fel energy isn't created by burning life force with Fel energy, Fel energy must have always existed =O

What is created when something is burned? What is created when wood is burned? What is created when life is burned?

[Charred Remains]?

OR

Smoke that smells like rotting corpses (or smells like burned life) and is comprised of sulfur (which is the greenish-yellow material of which hellfire was believed to consist of)?VisionOfPerfection (talk) 18:44, 28 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Also, steam "is not the same thing" as water (they are "different parts" of the same whole kind of thing imo).

Steam's state is different from water's state, so yes, water is technically destroyed when it is converted into steam. Steam doesn't just "reconstitute" itself into water without another factor and that factor is a part of the steam, but that factor isn't the steam itself, if that makes sense.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 19:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

You don't get to use "imo" when discussing physics. It's not a subjective opinion, it's an objective fact. Steam and water aren't different parts of the same whole, they're literally the same thing in a different state. Water is not destroyed to create steam, just as solid lead is not destroyed to create molten lead. And the sentence that ends with "if that makes sense"? That definitely does not make sense. The only factors involved in changing states between a liquid and a gas are temperature and pressure. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 20:34, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Water is destroyed to create steam. When I state destroyed I mean converted or transformed. Water is "converted""destroyed" into steam when it is heated.

Water and steam are the same thing in a different state? Then they are literally different parts of the same whole, as I've stated. Steam is not the same as water, and you are incapable of refuting that fact. Is steam a liquid? If steam isn't a liquid then steam is not the same as water. Period.

My last sentence does make sense. There is more than one factor that goes into a gas changing into a liquid state. Steam cannot change into water if there isn't another factor (steam doesn't just reconstitute itself into water without another fact) and that factor is a part of the steam.

Anyways......what is Fel energy if it is created by burning life? Is it the charred remains created by burning life or smoke?VisionOfPerfection (talk) 21:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

"Steam is not the same as water, and you are incapable of refuting that fact." You remember when I told you that your problem is that you can't accept the possibility that you could be wrong? This is what I'm talking about. First line of wikipedia's steam article reads, "Steam is water in the gas phase." I would also encourage you to check out the article on states of matter, because you seem to be woefully ignorant of how it actually works (for one thing, changing something into something else is not the same as destroying something to create something else, no matter how much you insist otherwise).

Regarding your last line, the answer is neither. Fel energy is the fire. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 21:16, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Water is not destroyed in creating steam. It's still water. The H2O molecules are still H2O. When you burn something, you are tearing the molecules apart and creating different compounds. Completely different processes. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 21:21, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

I didn't disregard physics, you're the one suggesting that steam is liquid (after all you did state steam is the same as water), you're also suggesting that wood is the fire that fuels it. Fel energy is not the same thing as the fire that is used to burn life.

Water is destroyed/converted to create steam. You're still suggesting that steam is liquid. As I have stated, water and steam are different parts of the same whole.

Fel energy is not fire. Fel energy is created by burning life. You set life on fire = You create Fel energy. Fel energy is the result of setting life on fire, so it's either smoke or the charred remains of life.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 21:29, 28 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Stop reading what you want to see, and read what I'm writing. Steam is not a liquid. Steam is the gaseous form of water. Water is the name of both the H2O molecule and its liquid state. Liquid water is not destroyed when it turns into steam. It is still H2O. Its molecular structure has not been altered in any way; the only thing that has changed are its properties. It is converted, IT IS NOT DESTROYED. Those two words mean entirely different things, and arguing otherwise is like saying that molten lead is destroyed to create solid lead, which is just absurd on the face of it.

I am also not saying that wood is fire; I am saying that fire exists by burning wood. Similarly, fel energy exists by burning (or consuming) life. The smoke and the charred remains are the waste products of the reaction that creates energy in the form of fire. The best analogy in this case would be the Blasted Lands and Hellfire Peninsula. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 21:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

You have stated that steam is the same thing as water and now you're stating that steam is not a liquid......

I told you already, by destroyed I mean converted. When you convert water into steam you are "changing""destroying""transforming" water's liquid form and to state otherwise is to suggest that liquid is steam (you've stated yourself that steam is not a liquid). I believe we agree on the same thing, we just don't know it. I believe that water is a form of whatever steam represents and vice-versa. Water is a form of steam, whatever steam is.

Fel energy is created by burning life, but Fel energy is not the "fire" that is used to burn life to create Fel energy. You stated that Fel energy is fire, which I took as Fel energy is the fire that is used to burn life to create Fel energy. If you've meant that Fel is the fire created when wood reaches its ignition point, then sure, Fel is fire.

Fel energy is not literally created when wood reaches its ignition point, it's created by burning life (which is different from wood). Fel is not life, Fel is not whatever burns life, it's something else. So what's the result of life burned? Ash, Smoke, Charred Remains that weren't turned into ash?VisionOfPerfection (talk) 22:13, 28 June 2015 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Vision... Conversion and destruction are too entirely different things. As per Oxford Dictinary, the former is "the process of changing or causing something to change from one form to another", the latter is "the action or process of causing so much damage to something that it no longer exists or cannot be repaired". They are in no way synonyms, so please, stop using them as such.

And steam is indeed water, just like ice is water. Both are different states of the same substance, which is typically liquid in Earth's enviroments. Please, make some research and you will find that it is a scientific fact.

As for the "burning log analogy" mentioned earlier in this discussion:

- The log would be life (which is said to be consumed and sacrificed to create fel energy);

- Fire would be fel magic (as fire/combustion/burning is "a process in which substances combine chemically with oxygen from the air and typically give out bright light, heat, and smoke") combustion or burning");

- Light and heat would be fel energy (as it was created from the destruction of the log)

- Smoke and ashes would be the remains of the fuel that powered the process. File:APB Deathknight Unholy.png Cemotucu (talk contribs) 22:40, 28 June 2015 (UTC)