Talk:High elf

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Previous discussions closed and moved to Talk:High elf/Archive1.

Improving Relations?

With all the content appearing with WOTLK, I've noticed that there have been interesting changes between the high elves (moslty of the Silver Covenant and the Alliance. (Particularly Night Elves)

First off, there are many high elves from the silver covenant fighting alongside alliance forces all over northrend. Second, There are high elves in ALL major cities (including Darnassus) when the Strand of the Ancients weekend comes up. Third, many of the Alliance Conscripts are night elves, and fight alongside Captain Iskandar, (who is affiliated with the Alliance expedition instead of the silver covenant) Before the Wrathgate event, there are High elf mages and Night elf Sentinels fighting along side each other as well.

Recently with the Argent Tournament we've seen not only many high elves from the silver covenant (hosting), but also many high elves part of the Argent Crusade, as Patrollers, Vendors, etc. Heck, there are high elves and night elves literally standing next to each other in many cases.

Basically, what I'm getting at here, is that maybe with all the recent changes, that the "Alliance Shunned" high elves arent as "shunned" as they were before.--Blayaden (talk) 15:15, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I think its safe to say relations are improving, another example is the High Elves in Dalaran willing to host Night Elves along with the rest of the Alliance. As well as the Night Elves being stationed in Allerian Stronghold. At this point i dont think they are shunned at all. Most people probably realize how High Elves are trying to distance themselves against Blood Elves and they respect that. --User:Queldorei
it also could just be a game mechanism. not to say they aren't improving, but creating a different scenario just for the expansion doesn't seem worth the trouble. --1201 (talk) 01:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Also there is Fiora Longears in Auberdine, the night elves are starting to warily accept the high elves and their sacrifices to fight their addiction and to aid the alliance, just like they accept humand and gnome mages.
Another good example is Moonbell a night elf stable master wearing the Silver Covenant Tabard on the ptr realms.--Gurluas (talk) 12:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Don't forget High Elves standing next to Blood Elves, Orcs, Trolls, Forsaken, and Tauren in peace and harmony.--LangstonTheCoward (talk) 07:25, November 1, 2009 (UTC)
That may be true but they do so of necessity, but do not forget the night elves even allowed high elves in Darnassus, they would never do that.--Gurluas (talk) 10:40, December 4, 2009 (UTC)
With the arrival of the cataclysm expansion we can see how the night elves, led by Tyrande Whisperwind, will accept the Highborne between them. We can therefore conclude that, faced with these difficult times of great strain of war between the Alliance and the Horde, both the night elves, high elves and the Highborne, have left behind their grudges to unite and fight alongside the Alliance. [[[User:Northem|Northem]] (talk) 15:27, April 7, 2010 (UTC)]

Highelf buildings.jpg

This image shows elven architecture in Outland and has a description which says that they attempt to show that they are not blood elves of Quel'Thalas. This makes little sense seeing as the high elves in Outland are remnants of the Alliance Expedition and would not have had any idea that there was ever any distinction between high and blood elves until after the portal was reopened (and the Allerian Stronghold was built decades before that). Sarvam (talk) 00:29, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

The high elves are not the ones showing the distinction to others, Blizzard is showing the distinction to the players.--SWM2448 00:31, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Fan Images

What is the deal with those fan made images? They clearly present some differences that are not in game nor in lore (Shorter eyebrows, larger ears) and the face selection shows a clear bias on my opinion. I think they shoud be removed, they don't even have the aesthetic cuality of other fan images.--Beloren (talk) 07:32, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Comparison
I think they serve a useful enough purpose and should be included in the article but i agree with everything you said and they need to be redone with default models and the same hair, face, etc...I opened up model viewer, loaded up the female elf model with all it's defaults. The only thing i changed was the skin (I used the default blood elf one and the default high elf one). Of course mine is very rough and i wouldn't add it to the article. If nobody makes one that looks good enough to put in the article i would support just removing it entirely.Warthok Talk Contribs 08:08, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
Which fan images are you talking about please?
File:High Elf War Mage.jpg and File:Epicranger.jpg?
IconSmall Hamuul.gif Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 13:35, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
These ones
File:Blood Elf versus High Elf - male.jpg and File:Blood Elf versus High Elf - female.jpg
I'll try to come up with some images with model viewer and a background, I'll post them here to see what the other users think. --Beloren (talk) 19:57, July 26, 2010 (UTC)
I gave it a second tought, Any image that we could make wouln't add anything noteworthy to the content. I think that these images should be removed without being replaced. On the other hand, the image about the high elves eye color could be redone to show the difference. But in any case, this is not necesary. So I think those fan images should be removed.--Beloren (talk) 03:04, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Lor'themar as a leader

As for as I know most High Elves despide him. Is he only a leader by legitimate means in that he rules Quel'thalas? Inv helmet 44.pngIconSmall Vincent.gif The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 23:47, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

No, he might have been considered a leader of them in the enciclopedia but it's likely that it has been retconned... The closest the high elves have to a leader is Veressa.--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:13, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Veressa IS the leader of the High Elves remaining Alliance High Elves. I dont see why people like to ignore that. Inv helmet 44.pngIconSmall Vincent.gif The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 00:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Ashenbear, it wasn't retconned. The Encyclopedia says that Lo'Themar was the leader of the High Elves before Kael returned to Quel'Thalas. When he was appointed leader, there were HE in Quel'Thalas, living alongside the Sindorei (according to In the Shadow of the Sun). But when Rommath came and tought the elves how to suck magic, the HE of Quel'Thalas opposed and Lor'Themar banished them; so, yes, Lor'Themar WAS a leader, but he is no more. He should be listed as a former leader. --Cemotucu (talk) 22:40, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Except at that time they weren't "High Elves" they were "Blood Elves". Kael renamed their race after the Scourge Invasion, the ones that were kicked out of Quel'thalas, and only then became the high elves(again).--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:55, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
The encyclopedia outright states that Lor'themar rallied the survivors, assuming -- and I quote -- "temporary leadership of the high elves until the prince's return." That more than qualifies him as a former leader; in fact, it couldn't be any clearer. Grissom (talk) 23:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
The problem with that is that at that time they were already blood elves(i don't care how this part of the article ends up, i'm just up for some arguing of semantics).--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:29, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
If it says high elves, they were high elves. The blood elves were, I think, just Kael's group at the time.--SWM2448 01:26, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
I took care of the infobox, any issues? Inv helmet 44.pngIconSmall Vincent.gif The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 03:34, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
"Temporary leadership of the high elves until the prince's return" seems to be pretty cut and dry. Add to that the fact that they weren't actually called blood elves until Kael'thas returned and proclaimed them as such, and it renders this entire argument moot. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 08:42, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Tides of Darkness, pg. 117

How far does this source reason the linked parts? The page 117 says something about the war at the blackrock and nothing about high elves. --Sutsuj (talk) 11:57, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Page Images

I think that Dath'Remar is a poor choice for the main page image. He bares little resemblance to the common appearance of high elves.--Drakolord7 (talk) 04:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree...--LemonBaby (talk) 07:45, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Racial Capital

Just a small point of clarification; what is the reasoning behind Dalaran being listed as the racial capitol? Is it because of the Silver Covenant, which is probably the largest ORGANIZED group of Quel'dorei? Otherwise I would think Stormwind would fit better since to my knowledge it still has the largest population of Queldorei. Adeodatus (talk) 16:33, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, it should be added as none, because officially they havent got capital city.--Mordecay (talk) 16:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Not in the same vein as Orcs have Org, Night Elves have Darn, etc, but that doesn't mean that don't have one at all. The place where they can be considered most organized, whether that be Dalaran via pseudo-govt of the silver covenant, or SW via sheer amount of population, should be considered the "capitol". Adeodatus (talk) 16:50, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
That seems awfully arbitrary. By that logic, we could say that Pearlfin Village is the capital of the Jinyu. But that wouldn't make it so. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:10, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
If you were to say all Jinyu, sure. But that's not quite the point I'm making. Pearlfin Village could be called the capitol of the Pearlfin Jinyu since it seems to be the largest grouping of Pearlfin that are organized. So that largest grouping of High Elves seems like it should have the same consideration. Just as Org could've been considered the capitol of the Darkspear when there were still in exile from Echo Islands.Adeodatus (talk)
The person who changed it to Dalaran on 6 Dec 2012 apparently thought that the Purge somehow made Dalaran the HElf capital even though the events there had no bearing on HElves outside the city. And nothing changed for HElves within the city except they don't have to deal with Sunreavers anymore. Dalaran wasn't the HElf racial capital in WotLK, and nothing in MoP warrants a change in the status. Especially when no source was given. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Except that Adeodatus was right in his logic. Orgrimmar could have been considered the racial capital for the Trolls; likewise with the Gnomes for Ironforge. Even now, the Worgen can consider Darnassus their racial capital. So overall, it isn't illogical to list Dalaran as a racial capital for the High elves. --Cmats4020 (talk) 5:24, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Except it's not. Orgrimmar is not the racial capital for the Trolls. They haven't had one since the fall of the Zandalari Empire. The Darkspear racial capital isn't even Orgrimmar, it's Darkspear Isle. The gnome racial capital is New Tinkertown while they fight to reclaim their real capital of Gnomeregan. The Worgen racial capital is Gilneas. The HElves don't have a racial capital because they are splintered into separate independent groups. Dalaran is the SILVER COVENANT capital, not the HElf racial capital. The fact remains that the person who made the edit gave no source or justification for changing the status. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 5:39, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
He never said Orgirmmar is the racial capital of the Trolls. However, it was before Cata when they shared the capital with the Orcs. Likewise, the Gnomes didn't have a racial capital before Cata either and their racial capital was Ironforge, shared with the Dwarves. The Worgen's racial capital would be Gilneas if it was actually their's, however, it isn't Alliance territory and their racial capital is Darnassus shared with the Night elves. The SIlver Covenant and the Kirin Tor comprise of the majority of High elves on Azeroth (from what we know of so far). Both are stationed in Dalaran, which would be their racial capital based on how the majority of Hig helves live there. Same with the Worgen for Darnassus, and what used to be Orgrimmar and Ironforge for Trolls and Gnomes respectively. --Cmats4020 (talk) 6:02, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Cmats4020 is correct. Proof: When Vol'jin himself, before Cataclysm, was an advisor for Thrall and could've been found at the, I think its called the Krommash Hold, that was found in Orgrimmar where Thrall sat at the Throne of the Warchief, while Vol'jin was up somewhere near door entrance of the throne room itself. Therefore Dalaran would be an official capital of the High Elves, but it could be a faction Capital city as well, like the Kirin Tor, but that could be false otherwise. — Surafbrov T / C / P 06:44, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Better explanation: its temporary settlement. Just like the gnomes were at Ironforge now they are trying to conquer their home back. Trolls, leaving orgrimmar because they don't want nothing to do with Garrosh Hellscream... (but too tell you, maybe Orgrimmar is now an official the capital for Trolls, since Vol'jin is Warchief? XD) Worgens, camping out at Darnassus, but the king is at Stormwind City. So, for the High Elves, Dalaran, its like temporary, is it not? — Surafbrov T / C / P 07:00, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

As I see it, the capital where the majority call home. With the Echo Isles back under control the Darkspears are likely to call the isles their home over Orgrimmar. Likewise, the high elves although spread out have come to call Dalaran their home. Their only home left....
Please leave the infobox as it currently is, unless evidence (lore) can support them actually saying they have no capital. This will only continue to be an edit war otherwise. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 07:07, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree with you Coobra. My information sound kinda, misleading. Haha. Anyways, the reason Dalaran could be their only home was because of the Scourge Invasion. I found a article on wowhead, you can find it here. From just the first paragraph, the Quel'Thalas seems to be the orgrinal home for the High Elves. But then again, this information could be incorrect. — Surafbrov T / C / P 07:18, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Hilariously enough, that "high elf crest" is actually fanart from deviantART.
What source is there anyway that Dalaran would be the high elf capital? If there's no source that it's not the capital, then surely there must be that backs up that it is. No, the Silver Covenant does not count, as it's just a faction of high elves. --g0urra[T҂C] 16:53, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Given that the infobox also lists Vereesa as their racial leader, it does seem to be making the erroneous assumption that the Silver Covenant and high elf society are one and the same. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 17:39, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
It's probably worth bearing in mind that as per Tides of War, the Silver Covenant have no political power within Dalaran. They're Jaina and the rest of the Six's (not one of whom is an elf now) militant police force. Is that really enough for us to infer Dalaran being the "high elf capital"? I don't think so. Falsetti (talk) 17:59, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
I wasn't making a change without lore evidence. I was reverting a previous change that was made without a source citation as per [WoWpedia's editing policy for removing content]: "Inaccuracy, or where the accuracy of the controversial information cannot be established due to lack of source citations." I mean no disrespect to Atomos. On [6 Dec 2012], Atomos changed the racial capital from "None" to "Dalaran" and promoted Vereesa to the official leader of all HElves without providing any source citation. I was attempting to revert those changes back to what was [previously listed] as unofficial capitals/leaders since bumping Dalaran and Vereesa to "official" had no source citation to back them up.
Looking at [Atomos' talk page], he had previously made similar edits when adding "Racial enclaves" for various racial capitals. It was pointed out by g0urra: ""we can now give the high elfs a capital" - That's not up to us to decide."
As for discussing the capitals/leaders. There are other significant populations of HElves within the Alliance unaffiliated with Dalaran. Quel'Danil Lodge and the previously marked unofficial capital of Allerian Stronghold have nothing to do with Dalaran or the Silver Covenant. No direct connection between them has ever been made in lore. And as cited to the WoW encyclopedia, the HElf race has ["no common opinions or goals."] Perhaps the following compromise instead of having it as "none" or just "Dalaran", list the different locations in which HElves congregate: "Unofficially: Dalaran, Quel'Danil Lodge, Stormwind City, Allerian Stronghold." And demote Vereesa back to "unofficially" with Auric Sunchaser who represented his group of HElves at the restored Sunwell. And add Jalinde from Quel'Danil. Since none of them are officially the primary nor have authority over the other Alliance HElf groups. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 07:40, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
Good points, I could revert back to those edits. However I'd suggest most of those areas should not be under capital, but rather under "Area(s)" (|area= in the template). What do you think? --g0urra[T҂C] 10:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
But even so, did Voljin and his Trolls have any political power within Orgrimmar while calling it their racial capital pre-Cata? I mean, even now, do the Worgen hold any political power within Darnassus while calling it their racial home? It's just common sense to point out that Dalaran is the High elven racial capital (as of now maybe even temporarily) as we have done so for a multitude of other races and other capitals, including the Gnomes for Ironforge. EDIT: To add on, I mean the prominent faction of each group is the one to have a racial capital. The Silver Covenant High elves (Dalaran), the Alliance Draenei (the Exodar), etc. Of course, there are multiple outposts with a multitude of other races living within them; but the most prominent is the most important, it seems. --Cmats4020 (talk) 9:31, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Silver Covenant high elves do not represent high elves in general, so we can't call Dalaran their capital. Darnassus can be called the capital of the worgen (at least the playable) as Gilneas City has been taken over and ruined, and the race leader is in Darnassus. --g0urra[T҂C] 14:52, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
The Worgen racial leader isn't in Darnassus, he's in Stormwind. --Cmats4020 (talk) 4:19, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
That is correct. The others, I assume, a general or captain is there at that oak tree in darnassus. — Surafbrov T / C / P 04:40, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Darnassus and Orgrimmar are also functionally the racial capitals of the worgen and trolls, gameplay-wise. Since high elves are not playable, no such statement can be made regarding them. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 17:33, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

HElf/BElf population

I posted this in the BElf discussion page, but feel it should be included here too:

As cited on the page: 90% of original HElf population was killed during the 3rd War. Of the 10% that survived, 90% became BElves. Of the BElves, 15% went with Kael to Outland... Vargoth's Journal says that Kael's army of Sunfury numbered in the thousands. That means the Azeroth BElf population is in the ten thousands. And remaining HElf population is in the thousands. And he original HElf population was in the hundred thousands. -Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 21:19, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Since this got brought up again, I'll just put a link to my post where I broke it down.[1] --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:34, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Patch 6.1 changes?

Only Blood elves have the eye glow effect

I was taking some screenshots of the updated High Elf/Blood elf NPC's and I noticed something that I think is new. Prior to 6.1 all blood elf models had a glowing green effect on top of their eyes. Even high elves. With the revamp I noticed (while taking pictures with dark lighting) that while blood elf npc's and players kept their "glowing" eyes, high elves no longer had this. Their eyes were blue without the green effect on their eyes. This might help identifying high elves a bit easier. Blayaden6724 (talk) 17:20, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Moving a line

While I was editing this earlier, I came across a paragraph (the one that begins, "While some high elf communities..." under Wrath of the Lich King) that I think might go better in the "Notes" section. I suspect the reason it appears here is because of its connection to the Silver Covenant (since they were introduced in WotLK), but it honestly seems kind of tangential in context (jumping from the high elves' role in the Northrend campaign to using hippogryphs as mounts then back to a sentence about Vereesa Windrunner). It's an interesting factoid but I'm not sure it really makes sense where it is right now. There's even a bullet point under "Notes" which mentions the high elves' use of dragonhawks as flying mounts in early WCIII builds, so I think moving it there would work well. I would have moved it myself but I didn't want to move stuff around without asking first. Emperorpapaltine (talk) 17:11, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Makes sense. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 23:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Alleria

While she is a prominent high elf, she doesn't lead any high elven group. Even void elves are said to be blood elves. --Mordecay (talk) 18:45, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Main Paragraph Needs a Rewrite

The main paragraph is full of outdated information that needs to be rewritten due to changes in the game and references from 2008 and earlier non-canon books that Chronicles has effectively overridden. In particular is this line-

"Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[12][13] In consequence, there are very few high elves left on Azeroth today. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret."

The entirety of this line is cited by pre-Wrath sources, and in Wrath we were given the city of Dalaran, which was dominated by High Elves, along with the Silver Covenant, a primarily High elven faction that has gone on to appear in several expansions and has played major roles in Pandaria and Legion. Blayaden6724 (talk) 15:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

None of that has ever been retconned or overwritten by other sources though. Chronicles doesn't mention them at all. It remains the only official lore that actually talks about the current day high elf plight and their place in the world, aside from a brief passage in the updated UVG (also mentioned in the main paragraph) which tells us that a few high elves were more loyal to the Alliance than to Quel'Thalas. Again though, this is not telling us anything new and offers no commentary on their culture or status as a race, which is still very relevant; for all the Silver Covenant's screentime, it has never produced any information on high elf identity, culture, or the race's wider goals. It's just a faction of Dalaran with its own agenda. Falsetti (talk) 16:42, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Yeah. Their numbers have not been mentioned since that source. Just because high elves appear here and there, does not mean that the line "very few high elves are left on Azeroth today" is no longer correct. Void elves for example are only a few followers of Umbric, yet appear everywhere in the War Campaign. Gnomes and Night elves were also said to have been decimated, yet they also have a great presence in the story. These two things are not mutually exclusive.
There are very few high elves left on Azeroth. It's just that we see that minority often. -- — MyMindWontQuiet 17:09, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Also, Dalaran was, and still is dominated by humans with a small high elven minority. The Covenant is just one faction like the Void elves. --Ryon21 (talk) 17:11, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
True, but the Dalaran Elves and the Silver Covenant have also been the most recurring and recognizable High elven groups since their introduction. With the exception of the world revamp in Cataclysm, most of the developments and events surrounding High elves have occurred around them- Dalaran has been the central hub of TWO expansions, the Silver Covenant has played major roles in three- making notable appearances in four (so far). They've become pretty recognized and have put High Elves as a "recognizable" race to say the very least.Blayaden6724 (talk) 17:13, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
And? I mean, I think everyone knows this already. That still doesn't change anything though. --Ryon21 (talk) 17:23, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
It is quite a difficult situation. The mention itself is a direct quote from the encyclopedia. It also could use a bit of modernizing though. The second paragraph following it already mentions the Silver covenant. Jaytojay1 (talk) 17:28, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
One of the main reasons I bring this up is due to out of place the line is compared to the rest of the page. Some people have been quoting it out of context, which has been pretty infuriating to say the least. The line just doesn't feel relevant due to all the changes in the game since Wrath. I mean, I know that the High Elves are STILL a scattered people and the Silver Covenant/High elves in Dalaran don't/probably don't make up the majority. But as of late Blizzard has given High elves a LOT of exposure and the line just feels... really antiquated now. Just my personal opinion and observation. Blayaden6724 (talk) 17:44, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I may not contribute as much as I used to, but I have to agree. The intro paragraphs on this article need to be rewritten and revamped. Heck, if I had the sources, I'd do it myself. It seems much of the intro references the outdated encyclopedias and it feels all over the place. I'm sorry to be a critic, but I just want what's best for this website. Hallowseve15 (talk) 21:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

We literally just said that high elves being "very few" and high elves appearing often are not a contradiction. This is similar to gnomes, night elves, and void elves, who all have been decimated or are very few numbers in lore, yet appear often in the story. "Exposure" is not equal to actual, population numbers.
According to official sources, high elves are very few. They are a minority, it's just that this minority shows up regularly.
If you have sources changing the high elves' numbers, feel free to share them. To our knowledge, nothing has changed since the Encyclopedia's statements. -- — MyMindWontQuiet 22:18, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I apologize, let me try to rephrase. It's not just about their population. Everyone knows high elves are low in numbers and scattered people. I don't know, it just feels like the intro could be updated and elaborated on. That's all. Hallowseve15 (talk) 22:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Well that's the tricky part. Its hard to give numbers when all the numbers have been written off as "non-canon" and Blizzard doesn't like giving actual numbers for anything. All we have are percents and in-game data. And I have in-game data for the record (I personally went to each location and counted) but something tells me that wouldn't be accepted since it isn't "official numbers from Blizzard." But Blizzard is probably never going to give us those numbers, so we're stuck in a circular loop.Blayaden6724 (talk) 23:08, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
I mean, if you can provide another, more recent source that covers the high elves' place in the world, their population, their culture (or lack thereof) - as the encyclopedia did - then maybe you could argue the old lore is no longer valid. If you can't, then why should its passages be removed or rewritten? The encyclopedia might be old, but it's still the most recent lore we have on the present-day high elves as a race. If anything, their in-game representation as scattered groups with different leaders and different goals (the Silver Covenant, Quel'Danil, Quel'Lithien, Allerian Stronghold, random NPCs...) corroborates the encyclopedia exactly. Falsetti (talk) 00:08, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Well I guess I can't. But if you're only using to use sources like the encyclopedia and books, then shouldn't that also eliminate sections that use quotes from NPC's and Quests?Blayaden6724 (talk) 00:43, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
The number of individual NPCs existing in the game is not a source for anything except for how many NPCs there are. It should not be taken to reflect anything lorewise, given - as has been repeatedly pointed out - NPC representation is not indicative of lore numbers in any way. -- DarkTZeratul (talk) 01:01, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Alright, alright. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.Blayaden6724 (talk) 01:13, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
TBH I completely agree with Blayaden6724 that such text as "they are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals." is outdated bollocks. This text was written long before the introduction of the Silver Covenant and 7th Legion, and the Covenant definitively isn't scattered, and definitively has a common goal, mainly fucking over the blood elves.
I also feel that people are needlessly fixated on the Encyclopedia being an almighty, unshakable canon because Blayaden isn't a regular user. We've had another discussion recently about the topic of old lore that's not been mentioned ever again and that was made unlikely by newer content, and far more people were agreeing that not all old lore is still canon. Can't remember the subject though. Xporc (talk) 08:46, 1 April 2019 (UTC)


Rereading it, I feel like some bits of the intro paragraph could use a bit of a rewrite, or moving, tho it is good enough as is too.
Stating that there is 90% of them following the Third War in the intro is ok, but it is said twice there, like in the very beginning and then repeated in the next part. Maybe merge both 90% mentions into one? After merging it would be even more chronologically that it currently is.
The bit starting with "In consequence, there are very few high elves left on Azeroth today." is kinda true because we have (or had in EPL) helves all over Azeroth, Hinterlands, then Dalaran, with individuals being in Stormwind, Dustwallow, Stonetalon, and with recent xpacks, the Silver Covenant taking a major appearance. So maybe we keep the bit about them being scattered individuals, but also grouped in Dalaran and Hinterlands and as the Covenant and the Highvale, respectively.
Alternatively, we could just cut a bit or completely the whole "scattered - not scattered - major Covenant appearance" - from the intro and move it into its own section, and list and detail the Encyclopedia info and Covenant appearance, both from perspectives of lore and "technical" (how Covenant are often used). --Mordecay (talk) 09:15, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Rewording the intro a bit + expanding the High elf#Population section on the article seems fair. Xporc (talk) 13:35, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I agree on the line about high elves not having formed groups, so I just went ahead and removed it, along with the double/redundant mention of the 90% figure, while keeping the rest.
And, Xporc, nobody cares about people being new users. People are discussing content, not ad-hominems, so I'd suggest you refrain from such random accusations in the future. -- — MyMindWontQuiet 20:18, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Yeah well until I dropped a word, almost everyone was 100% against changing anything to the text, so I'll keep my opinion about this Xporc (talk) 21:44, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
No, people were against changing the numbers, for the reasons explained above.
Mordecay's suggestions were unrelated to that and legit. -- — MyMindWontQuiet 22:24, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

How about creating a "High elves and blood elves" race page

The Warcraft Encyclopedia/High Elves and Blood Elves

How about creating a High elves and blood elves (are physiologically the same race) page, as it is a name used in the old online Warcraft Encyclopedia. It's an odd name, but then again this is an odd case. My thinking is to have this new page about the race (creature type) and still having the two high elf and blood elf pages for their cultures (or maybe merging it into the new race page). Mrforesttroll (talk) 20:32, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Doubt that's necessary Xporc (talk) 21:44, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, and "high elf" is already the race name.
"Blood elf" is a cultural/political name, genetically and physiologically blood elves are high elves. -- — MyMindWontQuiet 22:23, 1 April 2019 (UTC)