Talk:Taylor

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Model

Before Mists of Pandaria, he had a model just like any. Yes, but it wasn't 5.0.4 when he was updated but when patch 5.1.0 hit, he received this model that can be 80% almost exact for any other male human players except I haven't seen shoulders available like that.

--— Surafbrov T / C / P 09:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

I'd be on board on the whole "updated model" if he showed up as a unique model in WMV, he doesn't. He's just another generic NPC with some shoulderpads that are essentially Field Marshal's Pursuit with a tiny modification. Nazgrim is the exact same, he looks like a generic orc but was given some different shoulderpads unavailable to players. He isn't listed as having an updated model. The only thing "updated" about Nazgrim and Taylor alike are their shoulderpads, and that's not really an update either. And that does not classify as having a "unique model".
If Taylor had used a model identical to what he looked like in the in-game cinematic, yes, that would be unique. But, that is not the case. – WarGodZajru (talk) 09:22, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Though, Model updated doesn't imply the unique model to it. Simply the character as a whole received a new look. Where he was ragged during Cataclysm, now ashore Mists of Pandaria in the same way and now came to Lion's Landing in 5.1.0 with new armor and can also be found at the Timeless Isle wearing the same armor. It isn't about "unique model". — Surafbrov T / C / P 09:27, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
This also applies to General Nazgrim has he used the same model all the way to Siege of Orgrimmar. I don't see any changes with the shoulders except he appears in Kun-Lai Summit without the armor. With Legion, the death knights reanimated him into their own therefore receiving a new model. With Legion he received a new model, Taylor with patch 5.1.0, received a new model compared to the past. — Surafbrov T / C / P 09:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Receiving a new piece of armour or a new armour set... is not updating a model. It makes an NPC or player look a certain way but it doesn't change the model itself. "Model updated" implies something was done to the model, like the WoD overhaul, it affected both characters just like it did all the playable characters and a lot of NPCs. That is a model update.
And you pointed out one valid model update, Legion. When Nazgrim was risen as a DK, that's a model update, as his model was changed to suit a specific need. Fyi, Nazgrim had way different gear in WotLK and Cata. Your logic implies he should have a "model updated" each time his armour is changed. No, definitely not. His patch notes are more correct than Taylor's by stating how he was getting promoted in each expansion, which explains the change of clothing. His model was not updated, nor was Taylor's. Their ranks changed, bringing with them a change of clothing to fit their higher ranks. – WarGodZajru (talk) 09:40, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Putting the armor aside, yes a lot of characters in fact wouldn't have the Model updated in their Patch changes section. But focusing on Was shown in an in-game cinematic with a unique model. Though his NPC was never given the same look. was incorrect. From patch 5.0.4 to 5.0.5b that appearance, shown here, never was on the live server. Patch 5.1.0 changed that; go to Lion's Landing and Timeless Isle to see for yourself. Stating that his model isn't a unique model, but the one in the cinematic is a unique model. Kinda mixes things up a bit. And one can argue that his hair may be the significant change from the cinematic while another could argue it is simply a polished version from the one in-game. So from this point, it is best to say that he made an appearance. — Surafbrov T / C / P 09:57, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
If you think by "given the same look" I meant he didn't look similar to what he did in the cinematic, you interpreted my meaning wrong. What I meant with that statement is that the NPC version of him was not updated to look like he did in the cinematic, aka, more polished, more polygons and so forth – they did look similar with the same hairstyle and etc, yes. But he never got a model update outside of that cinematic until WoD revamped the character models. He had a unique model look in the cinematic, yes, but that didn't update his overall model, thus he did not get a model update. Which is the point I made with my statement. He appeared with a unique model in the cinematic but besides that he is just another generic human with some fancy shoulderguards. For "model updated" to apply, he needs to look in-game like he did in that cinematic, which he does not. – WarGodZajru (talk) 10:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
You're basically saying that all models in the Videos (cinematic) before Warlords will need something like that because it has that unique model to it before the game characters received it from because of Warlords. Like I said with the hair, one can argue with the model. Comparing the video to the screenshot, clearly they look the same. Go in-game, it'll be the updated character models from Warlords though you can revert back to the old models as Blizzard added that option in the settings. — Surafbrov T / C / P 10:19, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm saying that the claim that Taylor got an updated model prior to WoD is false and incorrect. If there are other characters with a similar claim on here, yes, change that, because it's false. It doesn't matter if his NPC looks similar to the model in the cinematic, they're the same character, obviously it's intentional. Though one is more polished than the other and made an appearance ONCE. I know they look similar because again, SAME character. But whether they look the same or not is not the point here, it's the false, incorrect claim that he had a model update prior to WoD, which he did not. There's no "argue with the model", there's no argument to be made, the statement is incorrect. He was never given an updated model outside of that one particular cinematic. His cinematic model does not apply to his character model. They're separate and one isn't even technically in the game, it's only in a video where it got an update to look nicer and make him stand out more. You won't find that model in the database, anywhere, as it was made part of that cinematic. The same treatment was never given to his in-game character. – WarGodZajru (talk) 10:28, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm with Suraf. Model updated in patch sections include gear changes and does not necessarily mean unique models, this is at least I've understood it for years. I think there are more NPCs like that, for example Lady Palanseer, for starters.
Zeratul once said something along the lines that the WoD model revamp isn't a real model change shouldn't be listed in patch sections since the old one can still be accessible. That's why these are not to be included in patch sections.--Mordecay (talk) 10:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
So pretty much the 6.0.2 information about the human revamp should be removed? — Surafbrov T / C / P 10:37, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I saw Zeralul removing these from patch sections, so I followed suit several times. Flight masters and ghost characters have these notes. --Mordecay (talk) 10:46, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm not a big fan of having a patch note entry each time an NPC changes armor or is slightly updated. Many NPCs would then miss that note if it was mandatory. Xporc (talk) 10:51, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
That's absurd, since the revamp is literally the only legit model update from these examples. It did update the model, it doesn't matter if the old character models are still accessible, everything that used the character models were still given thousands of new polygons and several times higher texture resolution (I do understand it's an optional thing to choose in-game, and shouldn't be documented on every NPC as that'd be ridiculous, but it's a legit model update unlike having a helmet added to an NPC). Having a pair of new shoulderpads and maybe a helmet.. does not count as a model update, that's an appearance change. I don't know where this ridiculous logic about having a new helmet counts as a "model update" comes from but it's.. invalid and I have to say, really stupid. – WarGodZajru (talk) 10:53, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
As I do agree with Mordecay, with just like 1-3 armor pieces changes shouldn't be logged, though it is indeed a model update since NPCs go by a ModelID, whether than Blizzard actually equipping each NPC... hahaha. On Xporc's behalf, I agree with him on this such matter that not every NPC should have this but when it comes to for an example Nazgrim turning into a Death Knight or Lady Palanseer with the entire armor set modified, I think it should be logged as it is a considerable change. — Surafbrov T / C / P 11:36, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
That's just a way of logging displayIDs, the model doesn't really change in the sense that it gets more polygons or new/better textures, that is what classifies as an updated model. I'll say my opinion on those two NPCs as well. For Nazgrim, I would keep in his patch notes that with each expac, he got promoted. Along with the promotion, he got an appearance change. In Legion he got a model change as he was raised as DK. There's the difference, appearance and model change. First changes were just pieces of armour. In Legion his model was given a new skin and eye colour, along with new gear.
Regarding Lady Palanseer, that's an appearance change top to bottom, the model itself was not changed a single inch. Only her armour was switched out. – WarGodZajru (talk) 11:43, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Appearance change for armor change sounds ok to me, if we will keep these changes in the notes.--Mordecay (talk) 11:53, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Sounds alright to me, just think this whole thing is silly but w/e. — Surafbrov T / C / P 19:20, 29 September 2017 (UTC)