Talk:Varian Wrynn

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Varian Wrynn article.

Past discussions archived to...


Major Overhaul

Honestly the entire article should now be cleaned up. Both the biography and the comic synopses should be merged into a single biography to remove the repetition in the content. There is no need to have two biographies. There is also no reason to have sections based on individual issues now that everything has been released. It can all be set up chronologically. Also there is no reason to discuss the flashbacks as flashbacks they could be inserted into where they take place chronologically, with only a nod that he a flash back to that point in time in later sections.Baggins (talk) 02:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the article is starting to shape up fairly well. It looks a lot nicer than all of the other city leader's imo. Tevri (talk) 11:22, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
Note that as of April 29th, I am removing the "cleanup" tag. As said in my edits, I think that the article is leaps and bounds better than it was when the tag was put there. While I'm sure there are small things that could be fixed up, I don't think it warrants the tag any longer. Especially with how the Thrall and other racial leaders have been as of late (for example). We have sources cited, we have accurate information, we have things in chronological order, no red links, most of it is concise, and there are good images (and not too few or too many). Tevri (talk) 20:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Archived

The discussion page was getting very bloated, especially with dead forum-like postings that had nothing to do with the article. I have archived the page. I'm sure that in the coming months there will be plenty new updates with King Varian Wrynn to discuss. Tevri (talk) 00:47, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

NPCBox

I updated the NPCBox a bit. "Lo'Gosh the Ghost Wolf" isn't really his title per say, it's an alias. It's mentioned a few times later in the article, so I removed it for now, but perhaps there's a way to add "Aliases" in the box? Or, the intro to the article could read: "Varian Wrynn, also known as Lo'Gosh the Ghost Wolf, is the son of the late...." I prefer a simple box-fix though. I also threw in his aggro (hostile to Horde, friendly to Alliance) -- I'm fairly certain all other racial leaders have that. And, I added a few of his known friends: Bolvar Fordragon (deceased), Valeera Sanguinar, Tirion Fordring, and Broll Bearmantle. Tevri (talk) 17:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

In addition, I'd like to hear what else people think this article needs to lose that "cleanup" tag. Tevri (talk) 02:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Bolvar is presumed to be deceased actually, due to what Alexstraza said at the Wrathgate. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 02:50, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the evidence shows that Highlord Bolvar is not dead, however, I don't think we can really get too much into that with this page. Where it says "deceased" next to Bolvar's name in npcbox, I'll link this section of the Bolvar article for people wanting to know more: http://www.wowwiki.com/Bolvar_Fordragon#Fate_of_Bolvar. We can update the article to say "Undead" if an when the time comes. Tevri (talk) 18:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Varian is Right

does anyone else wanna add the facts that were found in the Wowinsider Article "Varian is Right"? I already added the three people he has lost because of the Horde.--IconSmall DrakonidBlue.gifMaelstrong 21:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

If you want to, you do it. They will be removed if they become too fan opinion based.--SWM2448 21:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
All facts relevant to King Varian and his distaste for the Horde's faction are currently in the article (the orcs murdering of Llane Wrynn, the Forsaken and the Wrathgate, the Forsaken and Lordaeron, the orcs and Broken Front, the orcs and Warsong and so on and so forth). All the information in the opinion article is correct, but not needed - we don't need to restate what's already been said. Also, I think the sentence is a bit unnecessary. Tevri (talk) 00:31, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

It would be more convincing if an admin removed it.--IconSmall DrakonidBlue.gifMaelstrong 01:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to convince anyone, I was simply stating my opinion -- and I think it's a correct one. It isn't really a note or a piece of trivia either; Llane's death is very early in the biography, Highlord Bolvar's is in the NPCBox...the information added again just seems superfluous to me. Tevri (talk) 04:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
That article explains his mindset perfectly, to my mind. However, wowinsider isn't Blizzard, and psychoanalysis is not part of what we do here. Yes, Varian's opinions are rarely justified, and it's good to see someone actually explaining his mindset for once- as the audience, we have the gift of clarity: we know that Jaina and Rhonin are right and that people like Varian and Garrosh need to move on, and we often forget that in the world itself, things aren't that simple.
Anyway, back to the actual topic. I don't think that we need a "trivia" note about how many people he's lost to the Horde, it's all elsewhere in the article. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 04:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I do disagree on the point of King Varian's distrust for the Horde; I don't think that 'moving on' is realistic after all that's happened. There is point when blind peace isn't the answer. The Horde (orcs and Forsaken specifically) have easily caused the deaths of more Alliance members than the Scourge and Yogg-Saron combined. It seems to work out that as far as the average Alliance person is concerned, they both are very dangerous, with leaders just as dangerous as the Lich King (i.e. Sylvanas, who wants to wipe out all life on Azeroth), not to mention the Horde actively occupying a human capital. Meh, but this isn't a forum. Bottom line, we shouldn't let the page devolve into an analysis of his beliefs. Well, there's the Admin if you really needed it Maelstrong. Tevri (talk) 06:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Geez, we dont want no "Hitler was right" articles to wowwiki. Just forget it. Noobi666 (talk) 07:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, that was completly out of line. You must be mistaking him for one of the Horde leaders like Sylvanas, who is actively trying to wipe out all life on Azeroth. (Confirmed by the new Arthas novel, not to mention every RPG about her, and in-game quests). Tevri (talk) 17:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
And that, sir, is what is called "laying down the law". DacianWarlord (talk) 23:44, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Varian's Brother?

I may be wrong or it may have been talked about before but on wikipedia I found an interesting note about the Movie: "at Blizzcon 2007, on the panel with executives from Legendary Pictures, Chris Metzen also noted that Varian Wrynn, "Might have a brother"." Don't know what you'll make of this :) --Senoj (talk) 19:56, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, more or less, but the actual quote is different. When he was asked if the bad-ass human was the, that time unknown, same guy of the comic he answered this: "Nope, but they could be twins".
So I would say that the wikipedia quote is wrong, that was just said to not spoil who the guy of the comic was (who resulted to be Varian) and don't give too much detail to the movie; but answering the question that they weren't the same guy. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 20:10, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh I forgot, here is the source: [1]. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 20:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh that is accurate, that was Metzen's quote, "he might have a twin."

Exaggerated

The article is too puffed up! For example, almost every sentence made by Varian is eagerly copied into the 'Quotes' heading. Every picture available is shoved into the article, thinking that every fart must be accompanied by a screenshot. It makes the article less clarifying. I think it's too much. - Unireal 16:24, 17 September 2009 (CET)

Trim the quotes section at your leisure, then. Demote most of the pics to a gallery, like the one at Sylvanas Windrunner.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:37, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Figure

That figure's a bit odd. It looks like Conan the Barbarian or something. BobNamataki (talk) 10:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

It's from when he was a Horde gladiator. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 16:31, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Incredibly confusing

I can't help but notice that from the Revelations section to the end of the Corruption Ends section, the article is incredibly confusing. This is a bit of a plea for a rewrite - I'd do so myself, but I have no access to the material I'd need to do so. If someone does, making it a little more coherent would be helpful. Ellethwen (talk) 13:57, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Last Name Pronunciation

I've been wondering how you pronounce his last name. I've heard many different variations, include (Rinn) and (Rine). Now I have been calling him (Vare-ee-in Rine) since the beginning, but I'm just wondering if there is an official pronunciation for him. BigstackstwoSignature.gif Bigstackstwo (talk · contr) 04:05, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Rinn. It rhymes with Tin. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:11, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Duke Nukem voiced King Varian??

Just saw the interview where Jon St. John himself said so (and I love that they're FRIGGIN' FINALLY releaving DN Forever)...when was this? I thought that was all Metzen. --Joshmaul (talk) 04:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Personality Edit

I put in a Personality section because that's how Christie Golden described Varian in the The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm almost word for word. But User:Tevri edited it with stuff from his interpretation based on events from his biography. http://www.wowpedia.org/index.php?title=Varian_Wrynn&diff=prev&oldid=2494721 I think that it should be edited back that way it was before he "trimmed" it because it seems interpretive to me. (Sports72Xtrm (talk) 06:34, 6 November 2010 (UTC)).

I disagree. The grammar in the original was very poor, and had to be cleaned up and streamlined. Everything from the original post is there, just shorter. Nothing is interpreted, other than that Varian loves his people and his son--both of which, I doubt anyone would deny, and that sentence is just there as a "lead-in" to the canon elements. Some things can be inferred very accurately, and I believe the paragraph is a completely accurate assessment of the character Blizzard has portrayed. I wont deny that is imperfect, however, I think it is vastly better than the previous one was. Tevri (talk) 02:48, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Removing/Altering the 'World of Warcraft' heading

As the Headline suggests, I propose the removal or overhaul of the heading "World of Warcraft". It's hardly serving its purpose with Stormrage and The Shattering novel info under it, surely it would be better off just merged as part of the biography? Lyvefire (talk) 14:19, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and made the edits since nobody seemed to raise any objetions here. I sincerely hope nobody minds me taking the initiative but I feel the article looks a lot better for it. Lyvefire (talk) 15:50, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Confusion with Patch Changes section.

I just finished reading the whole article, when I noticed a discrepency in "Patch Changes". It is mentioned a few times earlier in the page that Varian Wyrnn was removed from Alcaz Island in patch 1.9. But at the end someone put in as that being the patch he was added into the game, with patch 1.10 being the date of his removal from said island. I did not start playing WoW until about 6 months before TBC was released, so I am uncertain as to which date he was added/removed.

If no one offers any comments, I will go ahead and edit the section to bring it in line with the rest of the article. Alayea (talk) 08:08, 14 March 2011 (UTC)


Edited the Patch Changes section since there were no objections. Alayea (talk) 03:39, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

MoP trailer quote?

Hey guys, I've just noticed that Varian has the MoP trailer speech under his quotes. I'm pretty sure it's not actually Varian, but just Metzen being the personless narrator, or if anything it's Thrall... Edit: This statement can be streghtned by that fact that he "wasn't there when the world of limitless adventure opened before our eyes" nor when we ventured into the "new alien world", but rather he was sitting in Onxyia's basement/was fighting within the orcish arena pretty much.

IconSmall BloodElf2 Male.gif Encaitar (DiscussionDeeds) 14:41, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Is this the correct word?

"Varian declared that if relishing war on their enemies makes him a monster, then he is the monster that Stormwind needs." This seems to be a paraphrase of a direct quote from the novel. I have not read the novel, so I must ask: Is the actual intended word 'relishing' or is it meant to be 'releasing'? If it is the former, I'd like to rewrite the sentence so it makes grammatical sense, i.e.: "relishing war with". Aliok (talk) 06:05, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not incorrect, but it is a bit awkward. Whether it's a direct quote from Blood of Our Fathers or not, it's not phrased as one so go ahead and change it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Wolfheart and Blood of Our Fathers

Can someone cut these two sections down to a more appropriate length? They should really just be 2-3 paragraphs each, not a detailed play-by-play of the entire story. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 08:33, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Why so? What if someone is lazy to read 12-part (or 7 in case of Velen) but want to know everything? I think it is good to have more comprehensive summary. In case of Varian it is big enough I agree but in Velen´s and Anduin´s case (Prophets lesson) is good as it is not as big as Varian´s story. --Mordecay (talk) 09:12, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Varian is Dead?

I am aware of a Blizzard announcement with regards to the king being dead. It is publicity for the upcoming Legion expansion.

But even the Alpha content, to which I have access, does not currently have a deceased Varian.

To say he is dead is thusly speculative. At this stage.

We should deal with facts as they stand in released lore sources.

There is the question of posting an NPC "status" or other data for unreleased content. I regard an Alpha as unreleased content. Blizzard do NOT regard any Alpha content as "final" and indeed lore elements do get cut or suddenly added prior to becoming "final".

Regardless, the death is not even present in the Alpha.

A Legion real life advertisement is not a source of lore.

(This is my first post here. I felt compelled as I was so outraged/shocked to see Varian's status as "dead". I am not trolling and my username is easily searchable in google and is consistent in a number of web arenas)

(Taraezor (talk) 09:00, 12 December 2015 (UTC))

I concur. Story is still quite fluid in alpha and Varian's death is nowhere to be found even in the alpha. Also, Warlords of Draenor is still the current expansion, so he is very much alive right now even if he does die in Legion. If the page still says deceased when I get home, I will fix it then. Thanks for bringing this to attention, Taraezor. Aliok (talk) 15:43, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Council of Seven Nations section

https://wow.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Varian_Wrynn&diff=4775081&oldid=4775053

  1. I think it makes more sense to have the "Shortly after the Stormwindian refugees reached Lordaeron" part in the same paragraph as the Council of Seven Nations part.
  2. It should probably be mentioned at the start why Terenas created the Council (specifically to form an Alliance between the kingdoms) instead of just saying that he gathered the leaders at a council without explaining why.
  3. I think it's logical to mention exactly when Turalyon had his speech and why (the council members continuing to squabble even after the Horde's conquest of Khaz Modan).
  4. "When the leaders at the council grew divided as Genn Greymane of Gilneas and Aiden Perenolde of Alterac threatened to abandon the council out of fear of losing their regional power" sounds somewhat weird to me; I think it should be mentioned specifically feared they would lose some of their regional power if the council did result in an Alliance.
  5. "If they did not, he announced, then every kingdom would be destroyed and every city would be burned as Stormwind had been and their children would be orphaned like Varian if they even survived at all." - There should probably be a comma or two in there to prevent it from sounding like a run-on sentence with two "and"s in rapid succession.

But fine, I'll stop. -- IconSmall TrollDeathKnight Male.gif DeludedTroll (talkcontribs) 12:03, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

  1. I'd like to try to avoid using the term "Stormwindian" since to my knowledge it hasn't ever been said in a game or book and was invented in a tweet. And their arrival/meeting with Terenas took place more closely together than the Council; it better fits the pacing of the book.
  2. Looking back at ToD and CV2, I did not see anything that stated Terenas already formed the concept of the Alliance, the council was meant to bring awareness of the orcs and their threat, then go from there.
  3. That doesn't really concern Varian though. It's not necessary to mention every single detail in the Chronicle, and if we did that would be close to copyright. The goal is to summarize. Plus, it contradicts Tides of Darkness where they find out about Khaz Modan shortly before the Horde lands in Hillsbrad, so it's best to avoid conflicting info.
  4. Um isn't that obvious? I'll add "to unity" anyway.
  5. Agreed, adding another comma. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 01:44, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
There's nothing wrong with "Stormwindian" being "invented" in a tweet since it comes from Blizzard. --Mordecay (talk) 11:18, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Marriage

Is it stated that Varian and Tiffin married in Year 15 somewhere, or do we assume so because Anduin was born then? --Mordecay (talk) 12:46, 29 March 2018 (UTC)