User talk:Zealvurte/Archive1

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Race names

Quick note to mention that we have decided that race names are not to use capital letters in most cases, as is practised by Blizzard. WP:NAME#Race_name_case. -- Kirkburn (talk) 07:35, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I know what was voted on, but a user brought up a very important point after the vote was closed, and i would be interested on seeing a new vote on it based on that new information. Besides, i've always typed it with capitals, and i've only purposely allowed myself to do it in my own userspace ;) --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 12:55, 28 December 2006 (EST)
In my view, whatever Blizzard uses takes precendence. -- Kirkburn (talk) 13:03, 28 December 2006 (EST)
As was pointed out, Blizzard are being very inconsitant, who are we to say what their policy is. I'm for sticking to what's correct under the english language unless Blizzard decide to state their policy. Latest thing with Forsaken in RotH shows that the authors aren't even getting it right. --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 13:14, 28 December 2006 (EST)
Blizzard will never state a policy like that. And no, it's quite clear that everything coming out of Blizzard at the moment uses lower-case race names. The encyclopedia, some of the novels, WoW itself, the website - all use lower case race names. And of course, the authors are not Blizzard, though they do take advice from them (mostly on lore issues, not grammar). -- Kirkburn (talk) 13:27, 28 December 2006 (EST)
There is already examples listed in that discussion where the website uses capitals too. It's not clear enough to draw the conclusion to go against standards of grammar. --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 13:36, 28 December 2006 (EST)
The encyclopedia (not the rest of the website!) and WoW:TBC are the latest official outputs of Blizzard - you're saying those are inconclusive, though they both use lower case race names throughout? -- Kirkburn (talk) 13:44, 28 December 2006 (EST)
Lol, i'm just pointing a hole in you saying they "all use lower case" ;) Just know, in my userspace, i'll be typing as a usually do, outside that, i'll try my best to keep it lower case, but it's hard to break out of a habit :p I still think Blizzard are wrong though, they are fallible :p --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 13:59, 28 December 2006 (EST)
=) Yeah, I was just making sure you knew originally - you can type what you wish in User pages :P -- Kirkburn (talk) 14:01, 28 December 2006 (EST)
You mentioned following the English language, but writing lower case is in fact what the English language would do in any normal situation. Notice the incorrectness of the sentence 'The two Dogs love their Human owners, but the Cats could care less.' --Varghdin 20:06 28 December 2006 (CET)
Yeah, but that changes in fantasy and differing nouns (i don't pretend to be good with english..) as was pointed out on the original dicussion. --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 14:14, 28 December 2006 (EST)


Correct me if I'm wrong, but your issue with me appears to be that you are under the impression that I changed the Antonidas infobox because I was caving to Theron's objection. This is not true; I made the changes for the reasons stated on the talk page- I intended the summary to leave a subtle warning to Baggins and Theron, both of whom have a habit of reviving old arguments. If I've grabbed the wrong end of the stick, and you have some other issue, please let me know.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:31, 10 January 2007 (EST)

I was admitidly harsh, but that's because your prior edits and then to revert those changes for that reason pissed me off. I know you were right to revert the king part, that is much clearer now. However, the reasons you gave seemed that you were taking on a policy of ignoring facts, and removing them, because they are controversial. You summary and later additions to the talk did not seem to suggest otherwise either. If that's not the case, then i appologize for my brashness. If it is the case then i do not. --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 20:43, 10 January 2007 (EST)
My policy on facts is to list them. My policy on their removal is whether or not they are true. I have no quarrel with the idea that Antonidas was the ruler of Dalaran. The issue is that listing "King of Dalaran" as a profession is technically false, and I know a number of users who would simply remove it from the infobox. As I've tried to explain to you, I did not remove it because Theron found it controversial, I removed it because is technically incorrect. If I had a policy of removing content because of user controversy, I would have been stripped and banned a long time ago, as such a policy would lead to the deletion of Draenei, Blood elf and War of the Ancients (novel account).--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:08, 11 January 2007 (EST)
Yeah, i was lead to beleive it was a true fact, hence the confusion, rather annoyed to find i was lead astray. No worries then, sorry :p --Zeal (talk - contr - web) 00:14, 11 January 2007 (EST)

There was definitely a miscomunication issue that went on, I tried to explain where the paraphrase came from, the fact it was just a paraphrase, but somehow it was overlooked during the conversation. I didn't tell him or mean for him to go after you Ragestorm, or alter the topic, and was a bit upset when he did. I also agree that it doesn't belong in the character box, but discussion of the refrence in the main article was fine. Certainly glad he's apoligizing. I apoligize for untentially causing the issue.Baggins 00:18, 11 January 2007 (EST)

Though your brashness needs tempering, your motivations came from the right place. No harm done. I'm just glad that this happened on an article like Antonidas, and not Draenei or WotA. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 09:54, 11 January 2007 (EST)

Font Sizes with {{Tooltip}}

I have an issue with {{Tooltip}}. I simply copied and pasted  [Hearthstone] to User:Voidvector/Sandbox and it looks different from the original. The font definition seems to have messed up somewhere. Just look at the 2 pages. --Voidvector 05:22, 21 January 2007 (EST)

This is working as intended :P Tooltips will scale down (font size and all), and drop non-default tooltip information when used in pages that are not what they belong to (Item, NPC etc). If you just want to do some testing, User:Zeal/Sandbox/Templates/tooltip has these checks removed iirc, so you can use it freely. --Zealtalkcontrweb 06:03, 21 January 2007 (EST)
I assume you check based on page title? If this is the case there are disambiguated pages which would mess up accordingly. --Voidvector 23:16, 21 January 2007 (EST)
Items and NPCs will never be disambiguated. If they are, then someone needs a smack. --Zealtalkcontrweb 17:43, 22 January 2007 (EST)
There are plenty. [Frostbite] [Heart of the Wild], etc ,etc. --Voidvector 17:56, 22 January 2007 (EST)
All i see is idiocy and one of many reasons why namespaces should be in use.. So yeah, people that need a smack. ¬_¬ I'm not going to design templates for a crap system that's currently in place. --Zealtalkcontrweb 18:03, 22 January 2007 (EST)

Inline Badge

I'm essentially copying your inline badge to make another one. I really like the design of it. (the one you recently cited in Village Pump)--Hobinheim (talk · contr) 15:38, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Glad you like, feel free too. Been away at a LAN this weekend, i'll provide more input and take a look tomorrow. --Zealtalkcontrweb 17:44, 22 January 2007 (EST)

template code layout

I noticed a neat trick in one template's code that you might like to use in your longer, complicated templates like {{Cost}}. The author used: <!-- --> to break up the code without affecting the output. Ironically, I noticed it in {{Alt Currency}}. It might help keep things clear and maintainable, or not. Regardless, keep up the good work. --Beep2 16:24, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Yeah, i dislike over use of xhtml comments, but i have used them in a few places, eg. {{tooltip}}. Thanks anyways. --Zealtalkcontrweb 17:59, 23 January 2007 (EST)


the loot template seems to be broken currently User:CrazyJack/Sig 09:26, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Perhaps you could elaborate as to how it's broken? :P It's working fine as far as i can see. If you mean epic showing up as common, that's a wiki caching problem and i'd sugggest you purge any pages you see with that error. --Zealtalkcontrweb 10:08, 29 January 2007 (EST)
yeh, all colors show up as common. o_O i've refreshed pages. but not sure how to purge the wikipages themselves.. and i get the same issue with "new" pages.. User:CrazyJack/Sig 10:14, 29 January 2007 (EST)
Could you possibly point me to some examples, as this should have only happened to epic, and was fixed a few days ago. I suspect Voidvector's bot used some lowercase names, and so are you. --Zealtalkcontrweb 10:26, 29 January 2007 (EST)

[Warblade of the Hakkari], this shows as white to me.

[Grand Marshal's Warblade], also white.. and i could go on. it's not just the pages. it's everywhere ! :P User:CrazyJack/Sig 10:30, 29 January 2007 (EST)

the [Zulian Stone Axe] on the Template:Loot looks ok. but if i link it here. [Zulian Stone Axe], then its white. User:CrazyJack/Sig 10:32, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Waiit a second..... [Zulian Stone Axe], .. ugh.. the thing is case sensitive. could you make alternatives for it so both Rare and rare yield the same result? There are numerous pages "out there" that use the lower case definition. User:CrazyJack/Sig 10:33, 29 January 2007 (EST)

God dammit, i dropped lowercase support before the bot went to work for a reason. Didn't want to duplicate code 3 more times when it's already duplicated 3 times as it is.. I'll take a look around, if the bot has been using lowercase, then i'll add the support back. If not, i won't support it unless more people wish to see it supported. --Zealtalkcontrweb 10:41, 29 January 2007 (EST)
Count me as 3 :P User:CrazyJack/Sig 10:50, 29 January 2007 (EST)
The bot has indeed been doing it correctly, i wait for further support :P --Zealtalkcontrweb 11:06, 29 January 2007 (EST)
"Yo could probably use text-transform: uppercase; CSS here" - source: Wowpedia talk:Village pump , instead of.. the above. User:CrazyJack/Sig 10:18, 31 January 2007 (EST)
Replied on the village pump, sadly it's not possible. --Zealtalkcontrweb 12:48, 31 January 2007 (EST)

hunter weapon

Talk:Hunter_weapon#Template, do you have an easy example how to add an if/else statement for that template. the "loot" template is a "bit" too large to make it easy to read / edit.

The following methods can be used for checking parameters
{{{<param>|<default value>}}}, {{if|{{{<param>|}}}|then=<true>|else=<false>}}, {{equal|{{{<param>|}}}|<value>|then=<true>|else=<false>}}, {{qif|test={{{<param>|}}}|test<value1>=<true1>|test<value2>=<true1>...|then=<specified but no match>|else=<not specified>}}
In your template, i'm not sure what you're attempting with the first section, but with test, you can simply use {{Loot|{{{rarirty|}}}|{{{name|}}}}} as {{Loot}} already handles null values itself, defaulting to Common and Unknown. --Zealtalkcontrweb 12:14, 31 January 2007 (EST)

more template woes

the Template:Loot seems to have broken several tables: Template:Tables:Scopes , Enchantment .

I've explained whats causing the error, and i've fixed scopes. I leave it to you or someone else to look at exactly how i fixed it and fix all other tables like it. --Zealtalkcontrweb 11:39, 1 February 2007 (EST)


First time I tried adding BC loot. Having an issue with the Item Boilerplate where a socket bonus is a spell effect. Please see  [Scale Leggings of the Skirmisher]. Any ideas? --Dracomage 09:52, 1 February 2007 (EST)

  1. You're using the old tooltip template
  2. {{Effect}} can only be used in tables, and not inline. So it can not be used as a Socket Bonus.
  3. {{Effect2}} can be used inline and in tables. It is however for effects (coloured green, linked), which Socket Bonus does not use. The effect you chose, was not the correct one.
I have removed the usuage of effect, and replaced it with wording that matches the various item databases. This also ensures the text remains grey, as per in-game and correctly used by WoWHead, while Alla and Thott display it incorrectly. --Zealtalkcontrweb 11:51, 1 February 2007 (EST)
Thank you. Old tooltip template??? I took the boilerplate, made a copy and used that. I know we are still discussing the new "standard", so no biggie for me. I just wanted to make sure I was comfortable with the new coding in the boilerplate. --Dracomage 12:12, 1 February 2007 (EST)
However. Wowhead also links the socket bonus to a spell effect? Is that not possible with either of the Effect/Effect2 templates? --Dracomage 12:14, 1 February 2007 (EST)
The boilerplate has not been changed, and it will be a little while longer until it is. currently, tooltips are all switching to use {{tooltip}}, moving away from the clunky and unhelpful table version from the boilerplate. --Zealtalkcontrweb 12:16, 1 February 2007 (EST)
Bugger. Added the Spell link, but now the text is blue instead of grey. <sigh> Thanks for helping - I'll go pound my head on a rock for a couple of minutes. --Dracomage 12:22, 1 February 2007 (EST)
I removed it, because as far as i can see, it is not the spell that is being used (Thottbot is just over eager to link spells that even come close). Therefore you should not be linking to it. --Zealtalkcontrweb 12:26, 1 February 2007 (EST)
MM. I checked Wowhead, and they had it linked to the same Spell effect? But the page is up and complete. Time to move on to the next. Thanks for the advice and help.--Dracomage 15:28, 1 February 2007 (EST)
I was actually talking about two different things. The way in which others than wowhead display the socket bonus is incorrect. the spell they all link to, afaik, is also incorrect. I've looked through the dbc files, nothing links that spell to the maching spell item enchanment, and even if it did, linking to that spell is wrong, as it is still not what is linked to the item. The fact the wording is different is your first clue, this means it can not be used in the way that you wanted to use it ({{effect}}), as it is the wrong spell, and it is the wrong wording. --Zealtalkcontrweb 15:40, 1 February 2007 (EST)


Noticed some issues. Please see talk page. --Dracomage 09:46, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Done, done and done --Zealtalkcontrweb 15:26, 6 February 2007 (EST)
Could you add in support for the  [Badge of Justice] (drops off heroic mode bosses)? It uses Image:Spell_Holy_ChampionsBond.png as its icon. Thanks - ClydeJr 12:11, 1 March 2007 (EST)
Done, also added all the tier 4 and 5 tokens and some more exotic stuff. --Zealtalkcontrweb 14:41, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Help 2

 [Hurricane] cannot get the tooltip right when I do {{:Hurricane (bow)}} it keep taking it to [Hurricane]. --Dracomage 14:52, 6 February 2007 (EST)

None of the templates (or even the boilerplate for that matter) used are to do with me. I can easily tell you, it's because you're using {{quality|Epic|Hurricane}} not {{quality|Epic|Hurrican (bow)}} in the tooltip. But even using the latter, you will then have Hurricane (bow) instead. {{Epic}} does not except disambiguation, neither does my own {{Quality}} which was made to replace it. This is an issue with the lack of an Item namespace. By all means, complain to an admin, we might then get it implemented.. I though, will not personally support disambiguation due to a lack of namespace in any of my templates in an effort to get it implemented. I don't enjoy needless code for the sake of laziness/incompetence. --Zealtalkcontrweb 15:26, 6 February 2007 (EST)
Thank you. I did not mean it as critique. I have found your additions to the Wiki great work, and inspiring. Iam unfortunately not trained or even self-trained on the indepth Wiki-code, and what I have see you do, has led me to bring problems/questions to your doorstep each time. Do sincerely appreciate the help. Please see my requests for help as a novice asking a master. --Dracomage 08:48, 7 February 2007 (EST)
No problem, wasn't really having a go at you. Gladly help out with other templates and thier usage, but more often than not, if i didn't make it or don't use it, i don't like it and have probably made my own to replace it ;) So that means i probably don't have much to say in order to help with problems you might have, other than don't use it :P --Zealtalkcontrweb 14:00, 7 February 2007 (EST)

Head Engineer

I know you said you weren't super excited about taking up the mantle of leadership, but you're the most active technically inclined person around. Would you be willing to head up and recruit the Engineers? The templates really need attention, and it's way too daunting for one person, so I thought you'd benefit from having people to delegate to officially. User:Montag/sig 21:32, 21 February 2007 (EST)

I don't feel the team should be formed until the upgrade, as that's when templates are all going to be changing. For now, templates have come as far as they can, so there is no great need for the team. I want to be on the team, but i don't feel i can lead it when i'd still only be learning parser function. My vote goes to voidvector tbh, but if no one else shows interest before the upgrade, i will reluctantly take the position. --Zealtalkcontrweb 06:48, 22 February 2007 (EST)

Time stamps on custom sigs

How? Obviously, there's ~~~~~, but that obviously isn't a custom sig.--Sky 23:05, 21 February 2007 (EST)

~~~~ your sig + timestamp. So yes, it is a custom sig if you have made your sig correctly (ie. in the nickname field and enabled raw signatures) --Zealtalkcontrweb 06:44, 22 February 2007 (EST)

Using your template


I'm the main administrator of WikiWoW, the french World of Warcraft wiki. I'm no designer though, so I'd like to know if I could use your templates on WikiWoW. You'd get full credit on the templates page. I realize that your work is under GNU so it's probably alright. Ours is under Creative Commons. But I'd like a "moral agreement".


--Furism 04:22, 27 February 2007 (EST)

Sure, no problem, not evne bothered about credit really. Just be forewarned, WoWWiki is upgrading and installing parsefunctions, mainly because my templates can be a bit too complex and add unessacary load when using conditional templates, so you may wish to hold out until that upgrade is done and they get converted to use parser functions instead. All dependent if you use/plan to use parse functions on your own wiki though. --Zealtalkcontrweb 11:06, 27 February 2007 (EST)
Thanks a lot! However, I'm not sure what you mean about installing parsefunctions, so for now I have shamelessly copy/pasted the conditional templates and other templates you used. I still gave you credit for the templates because I was truly impressed by their complexity and usefulness. --Furism 11:14, 27 February 2007 (EST)
Just took a quick look at what you copied over, and i saw you used Exists (and thus likely used the version of my templates that still use this). Exists is bugged and i have removed it from most of my templates at the sacrifice of some features. It has serious caching and performance issues and will greatly slow down your wiki as it did ours for a while. I would suggest removing it, and either:
  • Using the version of the templates i have currently (Lacks exists related features).
  • Wait until we upgrade our wiki and install parser functions, at which point they will be recoded to use parser functions which will not impact performance and open up even more power for the templates. This requires you install parser functions on your own wiki, however. Another good reason to wait is, after the upgrade, some of the places where i used Exists will also be replaced with some new CSS styles definied in our style sheet, reducing the coding work and increasing performance even further.
--Zealtalkcontrweb 11:36, 27 February 2007 (EST)


meh, it looks better to have 1 standard though. at least when used on a single page.... so, use either 1 , but not both at the same time on a single page. User:CrazyJack/Sig 09:58, 2 March 2007 (EST)


What's the difference between "Sell" and "Vendor?" Is vendor how much you buy it from a vendor for, or...?--Sky 19:14, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Correct, Vendor is the price Vendors use to sell it. Sell is of course the price you can sell it to vendors for. It has been suggested buy be used isntead of vendor, but it's a bit late to change it now : / --Zealtalkcontrweb 19:16, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Lol, w/e. Would you mind swinging around Help:Item articles to clarify that? I was a little confused last night on the difference between the two. :)--Sky 19:29, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Already there sorting out some new changes :p --Zealtalkcontrweb 19:30, 2 March 2007 (EST)
:P--Sky 19:32, 2 March 2007 (EST)

Speedy Deletions

I noticed you went on a Deletion spree on boss Loot, calling it "redundant".

Now I agree somewhat that there are other sources for boss loot, having a quick-viewable lootlist is a handy feature, wich some people (including me!) Might not find "redundant".

Has nothing to do with Boss loot, and nothing i've touched has effected boss loot currently (some item rewards and quests, that's it), all templates being marked for deletion are not even in use anymore or have already received a new standard and are being removed as i go. --Zealtalkcontrweb 03:32, 5 March 2007 (EST)