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They aren't night elves, are they?

User:Springer06 changed the nightborne description from simply "elves" to "night elves", but I think they count as a separate race, aren't they? If high elves and blood elves count as separate races for cultural reasons despite very minor physical differences, then so should night elves and nightborne, whose physical differences are far more pronounced. - Linneris (talk) 10:37, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

As I understand it, they are different yes. PeterWind (talk) 15:04, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

User:Springer06 Night elf means nocturnal elf as well as the alliance faction group. Not all night elves are part of the night elves, but they are all connected to and part of the Kal'dorei whole/essence in one variation or the other. We use to think this was only the alliance group, but since then we've come to know others like the Shen'drelar, the Nightborne and the Court of Farondis - all night elves too, but not that "the night elf" group.

Let me offer some clarity about the sense I was using the term in: They are night elves as in race but not as in faction. They are not the night elves (alliance faction/group) but they are nocturnal (night) elves, still in the traditions, customs of night elven civilization (pre-sundering culture) just not the alliance night elven vein (post-vigil) both are equally night elven. They are just a new race of night elves, like an alternative night elf called nightborne. They didn't stop being night elves (Race) just got a new body becoming a new race (physically) but still a form of night elf. Blizzard does this all the time, creates alternative groups that are physically altered from their original group when they do new expansions, sometimes a race gets an origin variant, sometimes an evolution variant. 

Until cataclysm and the Shen'drelar, we assumed night elves were only one group both race and faction, but since then we are alerted to other types of night elves, these include the Shen'drelar from Eldre'thalas, the Nightborne of Suramar and the Court of Farondis of Nar'thalas - they are all night elves too, just not part of the faction night elves and have different characteristics.

Blizzard may choose to make them a playable race in their own right, or sub-race of night elves if they do sub-races. Up to them. Remember that Worgen and Forsaken are technically sub-races of human yet they are developed as their own race. In many ways blood elves are a sub-race of night elves (lore wise) even though high elves came first in WC2, but are developed as a separate race, this can happen. It won't stop Nightborne from being night elves as they don't come more night elven (nocturnal, night elf empire) than them, having every right to the name as the alliance faction "the night elves" or the Court of Farondis (unliving night elves).

It is worth noting that this makes them all their own group under the umbrella of night elf distinct from High/Blood elves who removed the "night" part from them. Not nocturnal, but diurnal ... they also divorced themselves from every aspect of former night elven civilization and their traditions, both post-sundering and pre-sundering (which is what the nightborne are based on). Gone are the night, moon, star focus, Elune reverence, replaced with the sun, day, and the Light reverence. Note how all this is still present in the nightborne. It's like they are the arcane component of the night elven whole, whereas the night elves(faction) are the nature and divine component, like two separated parts that continued developing extensively separately in isolation. Now each group has the part the other is missing, not in small measure but a fully developed and operational measure. - Springer06 (talk) 22:15, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Speculation Rewrite

I think that speculation section needs to be heavily condensed. If it's taking up half the article, it's far too speculative to belong there. Meganerd18 (talk) 09:46, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Nightborne's night elvenness confrimed by developers and in-game experience, no need to speculate any longer

You can remove the speculation as it is no longer speculation, these are the ancient night elves themselves as developer confirms here: saying: "Steve:Suramar is steeped in history. This is the elven capital. Here we have the Nightborne, which is a new group of characters, but really it’s an ancient group. These are the old night elves, and they were the rulers of the world at one point in time." The original article is sufficiently descriptive to that effect, and ofc, players will soon get to realize this as they travel along the place noting all the night elven themes in a more arcane advanced version. Springer06 (talk) 15:14, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Nightborne or nightborne

Lower case or not?--Mordecay (talk) 21:09, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd say upper case much like Highborne. Snake.gifSssssssssssssssssssssssss Coobra sig3.gifFor Pony! (Sssss/Slithered) 21:31, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, when the noun is identifying like the Night Elves - it is capitals, but when it is descriptive like using night elf to describe any of the nocturnal elven groups that have carried on from the original Night Elven empire, it is small letters. e.g. the Nightborne (capital) are not the Night Elves, but they are night elves (nocturnal elves, elves of the night, or night based elves from the Kal'dorei Empire - you would use night elf small caps as a shorter way of saying nocturnal elf or elf of the night). Springer06 (talk) 21:59, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Unlike Highborne, nightborne isn't ever capitalized in lore materials (best example is Chronicle). The point about night elves is the same. That isn't capitalized either in official materials, just like every race name. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 01:07, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

The game uses the lowercase version. It makes sense, if you think about it; "Highborne" is the name for a social group of night elves, not a race, whereas "nightborne" is the name of a race. - Linneris (talk) 15:44, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Yep. Agreed. --Mordecay (talk) 13:59, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Nightborne and Blood elves

something I think is very good is the reaction of the blood elves regarding Shal'dorei. the blood elves understand the Saldorei and want to help. Rommath is also interesting to think about the importance of this battle for the future of all elves. --Kayruz31 (talk) 12:30, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

General cleanup needed

More citation is needed in general... Forgotten Knowledge is used to cite one word twice... The real problem is the "Culture" section. The culture section is a cluttered stream-of-consciousnesses with minimal citations. It reads like a fan fiction, full of personal critique. Then it starts using quotes interspersed into the text as support. No other article does that. Then it tries and fails to list every nightborne NPC? Then after language (which should be its own page) it lists what should be on NPC quotes in no particular order.--SWM2448 22:51, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Aye, the wall of text that is the Culture section was written by a new user, so it should be double-checked at the very least. --Mordecay (talk) 01:49, 10 November 2017 (UTC)